New Delhi: Parliament adopted the 'Sense of the House' on the three demands raised by anti-corruption crusader Anna Hazare by thumping of the desks on both the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha on Saturday in a special sitting. Both Houses debated the Lokpal Bills for more than eight hours and were adjourned till Monday without voting on the three demands put forward by Team Anna. The resolution was not voted upon as the discussion was not held Rule 184.
Anna Hazare was conveyed 'Sense of the House' and letter from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh through Union Science and Technology Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh and Congress' East Delhi MP Sandeep Dikshit. Hazare, who has been on a fast since August 16 demanding a strong Lokpal to fight corruption, will break his fast at 10 AM on Sunday.
"You will be happy to know that a resolution has been passed by Parliament on your demands on Lokpal Bill. Considering the resolution passed by Parliament, I appeal to you to withdraw your fast," the Prime Minister's letter read.
After Deshmukh read the Prime Minister's letter, Hazare addressed his supporters and called it the victory of people's power.
"I congratulate every MP on what has happened today. It's a victory of people power. This is just half the victory for us and this victory is for you, the people. I thank the media also for this victory. I'll break my fast at 10 am tomorrow," said Hazare amid thunderous applause. He also appealed to his supporters to celebrate the victory without indulging in any violence.
After his speech, Hazare, his associates and the huge crowd at the Ramlila Maidan sang the National Anthem.
"Parliament has spoken. The will of Parliament is the will of the people," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said.
"I'm happy today's debate resolved the impasse which was created by fasting of Shri Anna Hazare. The House debated and discussed the issues on all expects. In both the Houses there was consensus when I read out the sense of the House and it was approved by the thumping of the desks by all sections of the House," said Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee.
During the debate the Government and Opposition agreed that Parliament was the supreme legislative body of the country and unanimously requested Hazare to end his fast.
The two sides moved closer to a consensus on most points, including the three issues of including the lower bureaucracy, appointing Lokayuktas in states and having a citizen's charter, which were a bone of contention in the past.
The Bharatiya Janata Party said it found considerable merit in the three issues raised by Team Anna. However, it said inclusion of the Prime Minister under Lokpal should be with the exception of certain areas like national security.
There were a lot of twist and turns during the day with frequent changes in the stand of both the Government and Team Anna over the final wordings of the resolution and whether it would be voted upon or not.
The discussion on the Lokpal Bills in the Lok Sabha saw 27 speakers participating, with many of then delivering stirring speeches and acknowledging Hazare’s agitation for bring the issue of corruption to the centrestage.
The tone of the debate was set by Senior BJP MP and National Democratic Alliance Working President LK Advani who in his brief remarks appealed to the Lok Sabha to discuss the issue for the entire day but ensure that by evening the views of Parliament reach Hazare.
He felt that the discussion would be fruitful only if Hazare heeds the appeals made by the Prime Minister, Leader of the Opposition, the Speaker and the House and breaks his fast.
Leader of the Opposition Sushma Swaraj said history has given the House an opportunity to pass this legislation and it should not miss it by getting entangled in technicalities. "Let us give this country an effective, strong, free and impartial Lokpal," she said.
Ending all speculations about BJP's reservations on the three sticky points on which Team Anna was adamant, Swaraj said her party gives its consent to all of them.
The Congress also underlined that the government was agreeable to reasonable changes on the contentious issues and most of it is "a matter of dialogue and design". Sandeep Dikshit said the debate should firstly limit its aim to reaching a consensus so that Hazare can end his fast, which entered its 12th day on Friday.
Swaraj touched upon several points about the Lokpal issue which have been in controversy recently. "At a time when a former minister is saying the Prime Minister should be called in the court as a witness, the issue of including him in the ambit of Lokpal is important. The Prime Minister can put an end to this discussion by saying I am ready to come in its ambit," she said.
Swaraj insisted that while the Prime Minister himself says he wants to be included, nobody from the ruling party is paying heed to it.
"Our Prime Minister hardly speaks. And when he does you (Congress) don't listen to him. What he is saying is right, you should listen to him," Swaraj said.
BJP wants the Prime Minister to be exempt on issues of national security and public order.
On judicial accountability, both the Congress and the BJP appeared to be of the view that a separate Bill can be brought.
The BJP emphasised on the need for a National Judicial Commission for appointment of judges. Swaraj charged Congress with very often using the CBI to target opposition leaders and cited the names of Advani, Yashwant Sinha, Sharad Yadav, Mayawati, Mulayam Singh Yadav and Jayalalithaa, among others.
She insisted that CBI should become an independent body. "The most recent case is that of Jagan Mohan Reddy who was clean till he was in the Congress but facing raids after raids by the CBI now," she said.
Both Swaraj and Dikshit maintained that the immunity enjoyed by MPs for their conduct inside the House should continue as supremacy of Parliament should remain.
Swaraj said in the cash-for-query scam both Houses of Parliament had between them removed 11 MPs for taking a mere bribe of Rs 5,000 and this proves that the Parliament can deal with breach in conduct.
However, outside the House MPs are ordinary citizens and after the Narasimha Rao case the Prevention of Corruption Act and other laws applied to them, she said.
BJP wants the opposition to have a majority in the selection panel for choosing the Lokpal. Referring to the case of selection of P J Thomas as CVC which she had opposed, Swaraj said it had left her wiser and the government should not be in a majority in any such a panel.
There was some difference of opinion between the main opposition and the Congress on establishing a Lokayukta in states with the BJP saying Article 252 gives Centre the power to make an "enabling provision" while Dikshit said this should be left to the states.
Though the BJP gave its consent to inclusion of lower bureaucracy, it cautioned that Lokpal may become an "unwieldy body" and this provision may have a "psychological effect" on the low-level officials.
Dikshit said the Jan Lokpal Bill is "not sacrosanct" as the civil society members have themselves amended it "10-12 times". He argued that the government's views on Lokpal can also be incorporated in the law to be passed.
He took dig at Team Anna, saying they had clarified doubts on the Lokpal issue only two nights ago when the same could have been done much earlier.
Dikshit maintained that most differences can be sorted out through dialogue, including on the inclusion of PM, higher judiciary and provisions of drafts prepared by Aruna Roy, Dalit Samaj and Jayaprakash Narayan of Andhra Pradesh.
Rewati Raman Singh (SP) demanded that corporate houses, companies, electronic and print media and civil societies should be brought within the ambit of the Lokpal Bill.
He spoke in favour of including lower bureaucracy as well. As regards judiciary, he said, the government should expeditiously set up a Judicial Commission to take care of issues concerning appointment and conduct of judges.
The institution of Lokpal, Singh suggested should have adequate representation of minorities and weaker sections. Dara Singh Chauhan (BSP) too demanded adequate representation of weaker sections of society in the Lokpal. People should also talk about "social corruption" which has been plaguing the country for centuries, he said.
Referring to the issue of bringing Prime Minister and the judiciary within the ambit of Lokpal, Chauhan said his party would extend support to the issue provided there is unanimity in the Lok Sabha. Taking a dig at 24-hour TV news channels and coverage of Anna Hazare's crusade against corruption, Sharad Yadav (JD-U) said, "is dibbe se bahut dikkat hai (This idiot box gives lot of trouble)."
Ridiculing the electronic media, Yadav said, news channels are so obsessed with Anna Hazare that they have stopped showing other important news especially floods in different parts of the country particularly in eastern India.
He wondered why the Congress MPs visit TV studios and participate in discussions. "The country is not run by discussions on television channels, but by Parliament," he said.
Yadav also criticised the remarks and gestures of film actor Om Puri and former police officer Kiran Bedi at Ramlila Maidan, saying that people should maintain decorum.
Puri and Bedi yesterday made fun of MPs and had ridiculed them at the venue of the protest. Yadav said Lok Sabha has expelled MPs accused of accepting bribe. He also recalled how former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee lost majority in the Lok Sabha just by one vote.
Sudip Bandyopadhyay (Trinmool Congress) supported the idea of Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi providing constitutional status to the institution of Lokpal.
The crusade against corruption should be fought through Lokayukatas in states, he said.
TKS Elangovan (DMK) attacked the media for its role in the episode saying it has turned the crusade against corruption into a fight against Parliament and Constitution.
"In democracy people are the judges and not media," he said, adding "We should not burden the Lokpal with cases pertaining to lower bureaucracy."
Demanding withdrawal of the government's "useless" Lokpal Bill and working out of a fresh one, CPI(M) leader Basudeb Acharia said the Lokpal instituted by this law would not be independent and become "another investigating agency".
Seeking a multi-pronged approach to tackle corruption along with Lokpal, he supported Rahul Gandhi's proposal for state-funding of polls and demanded that corporate funding of political parties should not be legalised and stopped.
While judiciary should be tackled separately by creating a National Judicial Commission, tax reforms should be undertaken to check evasion, he said, adding that an estimated Rs 16 lakh crore stashed in tax havens should be brought back.
Acharia also demanded inclusion of the Prime Minister in the Lokpal ambit and expansion of the definition of corruption to tackle the menace more effectively. Besides, punitive action should be taken against corporate houses indulging in corrupt practices involving public servants.
The CPI(M) leader also wanted a separate model bill, in line with the Lokpal, for the establishment of effective Lokayuktas in states, while corruption in the lower bureaucracy should be dealt with by the vigilance machinery "but under the supervision of the Lokpal or Lokayukta".
He sought a separate legislation to implement the Citizen's Charter, saying that Lokpal should not become "unwieldy" if it has to deal with all these issues.
B Mahtab (BJD) did not agree with the suggestion for state funding of polls saying it was "inadvisable" for a multi-party system. "We are more concerned about unaccounted money coming in the electoral process," he said.
Maintaining that Lokpal should be accountable to Parliament, he also proposed that "a person who prosecutes should not be the one to punish" and observed "don't empower a person or a group so that they create havoc".
Observing that even a strong law cannot stop crime but only punish the criminal, Shiv Sena's Anant Geete said his party supremo Bal Thackeray had urged Hazare to call off his fast and ask his supporters like Kiran Bedi, Arvind Kejriwal and Prashant Bhushan to carry on the anti-graft struggle.
He also castigated the media for "paid news" saying corruption had seeped into all aspects of people's lives. Maintaining that a bill to create a "superpower centre" should not be rushed through, Geete wanted inclusion of Prime Minister in Lokpal's ambit, but said constitutional provisions on immunity for MPs should not be disturbed.
Sanjiv Naik (NCP) also wanted a strong and effective Lokpal but a separate system for checking graft in lower bureaucracy.
M Thambidurai (AIADMK) said the Prime Minister should not be included as "suggestions are being made that 'include PM but with some riders'. What is the purpose then to include the Prime Minister?"
AIADMK cannot fully support Hazare, he said adding that the Centre should not thrust Lokayukta on states. "We have to preserve the federal structure. We are not against Lokpal, but we have to respect the federal structure," Thambidurai said.
Hazare can have his own version of the Bill but cannot dictate terms to Parliament, he said.
N Kristappa (TDP) said there was need to accept the three conditions set by Hazare and take up discussion on the Jan Lokpal Bill.
Jayant Chaudhary (RLD) questioned the claims that civil society activism was a dangerous trend. "You have set up the National Advisory Council (NAC) which drafts BillS, why not (allow) Anna Hazare and his Bill," he asked.
Chaudhary also favoured having the office of prime minister and the lower bureaucracy under the ambit of the Lokpal.
Gurudas Dasgupta (CPI-M) said the supremacy of Parliament cannot be diluted. He said the government has to explain why the voice of one person has rocked Parliament.
He said at this critical hour, the government was speaking in many voices. "There are more than one power centres in this coalition that is why you are not speaking in one voice," he said.
Dasgupta alleged that the office the Prime Minister had become a post box.
Contending that the prime minister was not the sole leader of the party, he said the speech of the Congress General Secretary during the Zero Hour was at variance with the line taken by the government.
"The Congress General Secretary's speech during Zero Hour on Friday is at variance with the tenor of the speech of the Leader of the House. It is being interpreted as a hardline and confrontationist speech," he said.
Pitching for a strong Lokpal Bill, he said that a message has to be sent that Parliament was not oblivious to the concerns of the people and that without accountability there cannot be democracy.
He said prime minister, ministers, public servants and judiciary have to be made accountable.
Harsimrat Kaur (SAD) contended that the credibility of the lawmakers was at an all time low and enacting a strong Lokpal law was the only way to redemption.
Lalu Prasad (RJD) took exception to the "derogatory" language used against Parliamentarians by Hazare's representatives at the Ramlila ground in the course of the anti-corruption agitation.
He pointed out that the Standing Committee on Personnel, Public Grievances and Law and Justice had made a grand gesture to Team Anna to give their views on the Lokpal Bill but they only abused the system.
Prasad also questioned the validity of the debate on a matter that was already before a Standing Committee. He asserted that the supremacy of Parliament and Constitution should not be allowed to be moved an inch.
"We will not allow this temple (of democracy) to fall," Prasad said.
Intervening in the discussion, Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma said a strong Lokpal was the need of the time but "whatever we do should be within the framework of the Constitution...Josh me hosh zaruri hai (we should keep our senses intact even in excitement)."
He said had the NDA passed the Lokpal Bill there would have been no agitation over the bill now. Crucial issues like bringing Prime Minister within the ambit of Lokpal should be decided by the Standing Committee, he said, adding, "Prime Minister is an institution...Prime Minister is the voice of nation."
Referring to claims of Opposition that Congress members do not listen to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who had no objection to a scrutiny by Lokpal, Sharma said, "I will never ask whether BJP members listen to Leader of Opposition."
On objections raised by Opposition on the remarks of Congress General Secretary Rahul Gandhi, he asked as to what was wrong in state funding of elections and setting up of Lokpal as a statutory body to deal with corruption.
Former Prime Minister H D Deve Gowda (JD-S) said the Standing Committee should look into the provisions of the Lokayukt Act of 1984 of Karnataka before taking a call on crucial issues.
He said that since launch of the economic liberalization programme in 1991 economic growth (GDP) and corruption grew together.
Varun Gandhi (BJP) said his party was proud to be associated with the movement of Hazare.
The BJP, he said, "will stand with Anna Hazare...stand behind him...and will stand in front of him."
Gandhi said Hazare's movement has evoked response from people who want things to change and change for the better. "Youth have become active agents of change" following Hazare's agitation," he said, adding the elected representatives must respect the feelings of the people and mirror their sentiments in the House.
People are concerned about rising corruption and "are looking for solutions and not semantics," he said.
The members talk about privileges of Parliament but "what about the privileges of public...It is our duty to reflect public opinion here," he said.
When disturbed by treasury benches during his speech, the BJP member said, "You cannot drown my voice...I have earned the right to speak and you will have to listen to me."
Regretting that efforts were being made to "manufacture a divide" between Parliament and public, he said, "under the colonial rule state was sovereign, but now the people are sovereign."
Debate in the Rajya Sabha:
RS Lokpal Debate
BJP supports Team Anna on 3 contentious issues
New Delhi: BJP on Saturday said it found considerable merit in three contentious issues raised by Team Anna, including covering the entire bureaucracy and Citizens' Charter for public grievances under Lokpal and favoured Lokayuktas in the states.
However, it said inclusion of Prime Minister under Lokpal should be with the exception of certain areas like national security.
These views were forcefully expressed by Arun Jaitley, Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha during debate on the Lokpal issue in the House.
Besides, the party was against the phone-tapping powers to be given to any institution, except in matters of national security. Jaitley said it was conveyed to Team Anna when they met the party leaders.
Jaitley found "greater merit" in having a Citizens' Charter for redressal of grievances of the common man. He said several state governments have already started work in this area.
On the demand of the Anna Hazare-led civil society for having the entire bureaucracy under the Lokpal, he said there is considerable merit in it. "All public servants must be made accountable... When we are including the Prime Minister (in the Lokpal)..."
Responding to a specific enquiry by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee whether there can be a central law for Lokayuktas in the states, Jaitley, an eminent lawyer, said there can be enabling laws. While there is merit in this, Lokayuktas should not be appointed by the Centre.
Jaitley said, "We have heard some not-so-complimentary statements against MPs" and urged members to show maturity without getting provoked.
Asserting that the country needs a strong Lokpal, Jaitley said, "The current political impasse must end. The time has now come to raise the bar of accountability in Indian democracy."
"We have to find a solution which is consistent with our Constitution," he said, urging members to rise to the occasion.
Jaitley said civil society has a role. "We have options to agree or disagree. Nobody can dispute that Parliament is supreme in making laws," he said.
He cautioned that the Government must not get provoked by civil society in drafting any legislation, and said, "Our actions and responses should decide for our maturity."
Jaitley said the Government's draft of Lokpal must be seriously reconsidered which says that the Prime Minister will be accountable under Lokpal only after he ceases to be in office.
"I do not think the world's largest democracy can afford to experiment with this," he said, while supporting the demand to bring the Prime Minister within the purview of Lokpal keeping certain functions relating to intelligence, national security and foreign policy out of it.
On the issue of inclusion of higher judiciary under Lokpal, he said there was need for a National Judicial Commission, because judges should not appoint judges. He also found problem with the Judicial Accountability Bill.
While executive must not interfere with judiciary, the issue of judges' appointment cannot be left to them, he said.
On the conduct of MPs within the purview of Lokpal, the BJP leader said any Lokpal Bill should necessarily be compatible with Constitutional authority.
He said it has been proved that Parliament is competent enough to take strong action against misconduct of MPs inside the House and cited examples of how 11 MPs were removed for taking Rs 5,000 only.
Jaitley, however, said the conduct of MPs outside the House should be included under Lokpal.
Regarding the delegation of quasi-judicial powers to the Lokpal, Jaitley said a serious examination of this is required. It is a matter of legislative drafting and can be worked out, he said.
He pointed out that punishment for complainant was harsh in case it was proved false, but it was less for the corrupt.
It must be oversight and looked into, he said. Jaitley said there is need for having a genuine redressal mechanism as it will improve the quality of governance. "It is a step towards good governance. We must come up with procedures which are fair and effective," he said.
He said an average man confronts corruption as a way of life and thus it was necessary to have a law as people were no longer willing to accept status quo on corruption in the country.
He reminded that the Lokpal Bill had actually been once passed by the Lok Sabha in 1969, but the law could not be enacted as the Rajya Sabha could not pass it after Parliament was dissolved after split in the Indian National Congress.
Sitaram Yechury (CPM) said he agreed 'in-principle' with the three issues raised by team Anna but they will have to be implemented through constitutional procedures.
He said he wanted a new bill to be presented before Parliament which should be a "combination of best features of all the bills" including the Jan Lokpal Bill.
On the issue of bringing the lower bureaucracy under the purview of the proposed Lokpal, he said the bureaucracy at all levels must be under it but all of them cannot be covered under one authority.
He said for the citizen's charter, the Government can come up with a separate law for which there can be a reference in the Lokpal Bill.
Yechury agreed with the demand of having a separate Lokayukta for states and said their appointments should be the privilege of the respective state government and authorities there.
He said selection process of the Lokpal should be broad-based and should not be government-heavy. "The Prime Minister should be under the Lokpal but with certain safeguards," he said.
The Left MP said that the definition of corruption should also be changed and widened with the inclusion of acts of omission under the purview of the Prevention of Corruption Act.
He said for enhancing accountability of the judiciary, a National Judicial Commission should be established.
Yechury demanded that the Lokpal Bill should have provisions to probe corporates and the nexus among them, bureaucrats and sections of the corporate media.
Satish Chandra Mishra (BSP) said there should be provisions of reservation for the scheduled castes in the proposed Lokpal.
He said though his party respected the Anna Hazare and his movement, the country cannot bypass the Constitution and democratic procedures.
On the issue of bringing lower bureaucracy under the Lokpal, Mishra said it was "impractical" to do so. Tiruchi Siva (DMK) said his party favoured inclusion of the Prime Minister under the purview of Lokpal but with certain riders.
On the issue of bringing judiciary under the Lokpal, he said while immunities have been granted to judiciary by the Constitution, the proposed judicial accountability bill should be strengthened so that judges can come under "scrutiny".
At the same time, he said appointment of judges be made more transparent.
Both Siva and Tariq Anwar (NCP) thorough scrutiny of the Lokpal Bill by the Standing Committee.
Baishnab Parida (BJD) said the Prime Minister should come under the purview of the proposed anti-graft law but with with certain exceptions. Judiciary, however, should not be brought under its ambit.
Sukhendu Sekhar Roy (Trinamool) said Lokayukta should be set up through state legislations in keeping with the federal structure.
Roy too said PM should not be under the ambit of Lokpal while in office. Shivanand Tiwari (JD-U) also participated in the debate.
Ramgopal Yadav (SP) said there were many laws already to deal with corruption cases. He said his party is not in agreement with many provisions of the Jan Lokpal Bill drafted by civil society which rather than of checking corruption promote wrongdoings.
The Jan Lokpal Bill says that the 10-member Lokpal institution will have five members from judiciary and rest from the civil society, he said, questioning what was the guarantee that these five members from the civil society would be of impeccable integrity.
He said the Lokpal institution should have proper representation of SC/ST/OBC and added that NGOs and media should be brought under the ambit of lokpal.
D Raja (CPI) blamed corporate houses for magnifying corruption in the present time. "Now we hear about big scams involving mind-boggling sums of money...this enormous growth in corruption is because of the corporate houses which has a lot of influence on government of the day," he said.
Raja said his party is of the view that the Lokpal Bill is "weak" and suggested a strong anti-corruption legislation after studying all existing laws.
He said the Prime Minister should come within the ambit Lokpal. On Lokyukta in the states, he said states should not be compelled for it rather provided a model framework which could guide them formulate Lokyukta institution of their own.
Raja blamed the coterie surrounding Anna Hazare for complicating the issue and advised the government to negotiate directly with the Gandhian.
Paul Manoj Pandian (AIADMK) said his party president and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jaylalitha has already said that the Prime Minister should be out of the ambit of Lokpal as he is already covered by IPC and Prevention of Corruption Act. On Lokyukta in states, he said it should be left to them.
Nominated member Shobhana Bhartia said though there was a need to weed out corruption, the most effective Lokpal could not be a panacea for the wrongdoings.
She favoured inclusion of the Prime Minister under the purview of the Lokpal Bill, but insisted that passage of such an important bill should not be done in a haste.
"We can wait a little longer. The proceedings at the Ramlila Maidan should not be hanging on our head," she said.
Bhartia, however, disapproved the inclusion of judiciary and the lower bureaucracy under the ambit of the Lokpal Bill.
Asom Gana Parishad's Birendra Prasad Baishya backed Hazare's movement and said the Prime Minister should be brought under the ambit of the Lokpal Bill.
While favouring a strong Lokpal at the Centre, he said Lokayuktas should be set up in the states and added that AGP was in favour of inclusion of the judiciary.
Satyavrat Chaturvedi (Cong) said although the Prime Minister volunteered to come under the ambit of Lokpal, the Cabinet thought it would not be in the interest of the country.
Advocating an effective anti-corruption legislation, he said the government should not take any decision in haste. He took strong exception to the speakers from the platform of Anna Hazare's spitting venom against MPs and said "if they failed to keep their tongue in check, we can also give them a strong reply."
Details of resolution:
This House agrees in principle on following issues for an effective and strong Lokpal: 1) Citizen's charter, 2) Lower bureaucracy under Lokpal through appropriate mechanism, 3) Establishment of Lokayukta in states, 4) Further resolve to forward the proceedings of the House to the Standing Committee for its perusal while formulating its recommendations for a Lokpal Bill.
(With additional information from the PTI)
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